Monthly Debate [December 2006]

It is my pleasure to inaugurate the first ever BanglaForum monthly debate. I have taken the liberty to pick a provoking and controversial topic for this debate to elicit more response from the members.

The topic for the month of December is:

Does God exist? If so, can we prove he does? How can we know anything about God? Is it sacrilegious to even ask?

Naturally, a debate requires two sides to an argument. I presume that many people in the forum will take the "For" (pokkhe) side of the debate. To make things more interesting I have chosen to debate "Against" (bipokkhe) the topic. I hope a few members will join "Against" the topic to make the debate successful.

Remember, you do not have to believe in the topic to choose your side. Debate is a way of testing your reasoning, logic and rationality skills. You can display it without actually believing in the subject topic.

To keep things in order, I have added a poll to the topic. Feel free to pick your side and debate away.

Before you make a post, please start with your post a clear indication of which side you are on. If you agree with the topic, start the post with [For]. If you want to debate against the topic, start your post with [Against]. This will make things clearer for the debaters.

Example:

[For] I believe God exists. There is no way this universe was a random creation. To quote Mr. XYZ......

or,

[Against] The existence of God is highly debatable. To quote Einstein, .........

Please remember that all regular rules of other forums apply here. Off-topic, stupid and pointless posts will be deleted and perpetrators will be warned. If you do not wish to take part in the debate, do not post here at all. Talk elsewhere.

Good luck!

The existence of God looks like an obvious truth to the believers, but to the non-believers it is, as if covered with seven veils. I have tried my best to put as much as possible in a limited space.




UNIVERSE IS NOT FROM EVER

Some atheists claim that this universe is in existence from ever and it will last for ever. If this universe is in existence from ever, then it must have infinite source of power and energy, but we see that no material thing is infinite in this universe. The temperature of Sun is falling down, even the earth is cooling off. All the sources of energy in this universe are being consumed up and exhausting. So the world is approaching to its end as was prophesied by all the religions. It proves that the universe came into being a finite time ago and it also has a definite end. We know from our whole life's experience, that if we consider any process, there are only two possibilities, that a process is either started by some human beings, or it might be a result of some other process. If we move back in this tree of processes which are a result of some other process, ultimately we shall come across a process, which could not be attributed to any other process. At that place, we are left with no other argument, except to believe that it was started by some Super being. We refer to that super being as 'GOD', some atheists call this Super Being by the name of 'nature'. Actually just giving a different name to this Super Being really does not make much difference, they believe in GOD, and all they need is just a little fine tuning.




REVELATION

It has always been God's practice to communicate to people of every age. Not only He talks to the chosen ones (Prophets) but also to other righteous people and sometime even to very mean and filthy people, just to show his manifestations. Sometimes, God foretells people news about future and sometimes also about next world. Many times He has revealed news about the events, that are to happen hundreds of year later. God told in Quran some fourteen hundred years ago about the great progress of Christians, which was to occur sometimes later. It was foretold that a time will come when camels would be no longer used. Even it was told that the transportation that will be used in future would work with fire. It was foretold that a time will come when people would die in large numbers by earthquakes, storms and rains, and wars would also bring large number of fatalities. And such large scale destruction would have never happened before on this earth. Islam is a religion, about which God has said, that there will be people in every century, with whom God would communicate, and this has come true. How it can all happen by chance?




GOD LISTENS TO THE PRAYERS

God has always listened to the prayers of the righteous people of all the times. A non believer may say that it might have been by chance that those incidents happened that were prayed for. But the accepted prayers are different from the other ones. God not only listens to the prayers of his chosen one, but also He informs them about their acceptance. Many prophets have claimed about a number of things, and all those claims had been fulfilled, e.g their ultimate success is always foretold when apparently they were very weak and oppressed, but all of them succeeded ultimately.




All RELIGIONS BELIEVE IN GOD

Its an undeniable fact that all the religions on this earth claim to be from GOD. Hadhrat Muhammad (SAW), Moses, Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, Baba Nanak and every religious leader taught people to believe and worship GOD. Although all religions have slight differences in the attributes they ascribe to God, but all the religions hold the common view that there is a God who has created this universe. History tells us that even those ancient religions that no longer exist in this world, they also held the view of God, whether they were in ancient America, or in jungles of Africa or in England, or in Java or Sumatra, or in Japan and China or in Siberia or in India. It is an important point that what's the reason for this thought provoking unity among so varied religions? In the ancient times people were not linked together through any means of communication or transport, then how is it possible that people living in isolation thousands of mile away from each other, held the common view about the existence of God? Many of the lands were even not discovered at that time.Even now it is difficult for two persons to completely agree on any issue, then how come this universal unanimity regarding existence of God? All these facts lead us to the only possible conclusion that not only there is a living God but also that God has always manifested Himself through some means to his men to make them believe in Him. Historians agree that if there is such universal unanimity about any issue then there is no reason to disagree with it. Another fact worth noting is that there have been a small number of atheists all the times, this proves that the 'existence of God' is not related to any psychological need of human beings. In this world, one can lead ones life without acknowledging the existence of God, though he will be attempting to close his eyes to the very obvious and clear truth.







EVEN DISBELIEVERS IN THEIR HEART ARE AFRAID OF GOD

Human nature in itself provides us with a strong inclination towards a belief in God. There are certain sins which human nature doesn't like to get involved in. For instance, relationship with Mother, sister and daughters, uncleanliness owing to certain discharges from body. These are certain things which even a atheist will not like to do. But if there is no fear of a super being, Why not to lie all the times?, why not to steal and commit adultery? What are the reasons that keep them away from these evils? If they do not feel the power of some unseen, then they should do whatever pleases them. Then truth and lie and justice and oppression should be all the same for them. Its only God's fear that is ruling on their hearts. Although their mind does not acknowledge the existence of God but the human nature created by God cannot defy it. So even an atheist at heart holds some view about God and judgment day. While in distress, everybody pray to a super-Being for relief. Why so, if they don't believe in that super-being, whom we call God?

Very well written BoIRaGi.

I was just about to write my first post to engage in a debate.... only then I noticed.. wait a minute!! This is taken totally from an article written by Belal Khalid: Ahmadiyya Muslim Community®

tsk tsk!

I am disappointed for getting my hopes high in finally having a worthwhile debate. The interest in debating this topic has so far been depressing. If this trend continues for a few more days, we may have to nullify this for favour of a less intricate one. Moreover, I wasn't expecting cheating.

it shouldn't matter where he got his information from lol. Prove him wrong that you can't!!

Ok this world was not made by human, they who made it?
where did the water come from?
Where did human come from?

lol you don't hav answer to any

I would like to ask Masoom, Soldier to join this debate on my side [for]

first of all 2 off topic kotha s...

1. rex er sathe ami parbo na
2. ami agei guess korsilam rex ei topic niei debate shuru korbe..nastikota amar dosto tar rondhre rondhre mishe gese..lolz..


well akta chotto thaught came into my mind and i am putting it down here..eta amar dharona..ar jukti ta khondon hoito keu korte parbe but amar belief ta chenge hobe na

Rasulullah muhammad Sallallahu walaihi wa sallam chilen akjon nirokkhor manush jar kono formal education chilo na..uni amon kono manusher o shongsporshe ashenni jara take maths ba science er knowledge dite paren in advanced level..kintu holy al quran e onek onek amon ayah ache jegulo pore western scientist ra basis hishebe dhore hypothesis toiri korechen and then they found out them to be true afterwards ..she gulor bishod bornona akhon amar dite iche korche na..je keu search kore nite poare from net...amar point holo amon ekti grontho oi dine unar moto akjon nirokhor manush jini science and mathz er basic dharona gulo o panni from kono teacher or books..tar pokhe rochona kora shomvob na..so the holy al quran is not a man written book ..it came from somewhere else...thats all..

again ...when i lost her ... i asked to myself..allah ki prarthona shunte pan? unar ekta nam ache as samiyu jar ortho shorbo srbonkari..uni ki shunte panna how the mother groaned....silently..he has another name...jar ortho shorbo droshta ..can't he see the mother bleed when she loses her most cherished possession???? ...i beg mercy allah ..maybe i dun understand ur thaughts..

(am sorry if i said anything silly)

I like to add one more thing that we can fin in Holy Quran That Moon has a some sort of dark line which divides the moon.It has been proved by neil armstrong that there is really a dark line.But it was written many
many years ago when there was no way to go to moon.So how could Mohanabi(sm) knew it then.He knew it cause the creator of human ALLAH told him.Or do u guys wanna say that it was just a coincidence???

Sure it doesn't. But it isn't his work either. I can just go to Google and type whatever I want and paste it in here. It's free to everyone. If anyone was debating on that post, it was its writer Belal Khalid; this is supposed to be a debate between BanglaForum members.

As for your questions, I am equipped to rebut each and every of them. However, I fail to see why I'd be obligated to answer your questions while you flout all the rules and guidelines specified in this debate. If you have nothing worth contributing or debating, don't post them.


first of all 2 off topic kotha s...

1. rex er sathe ami parbo na
2. ami agei guess korsilam rex ei topic niei debate shuru korbe..nastikota amar dosto tar rondhre rondhre mishe gese..lolz..

Looks like you don't know your dosto well enough because he is not an atheist But as you said, it is off-topic - hehe.


well akta chotto thaught came into my mind and i am putting it down here..eta amar dharona..ar jukti ta khondon hoito keu korte parbe but amar belief ta chenge hobe na

Nobody is here to change your mind. A topic can be easily debated from both sides - regardless of one's belief.

Rasulullah muhammad Sallallahu walaihi wa sallam chilen akjon nirokkhor manush jar kono formal education chilo na..uni amon kono manusher o shongsporshe ashenni jara take maths ba science er knowledge dite paren in advanced level..kintu holy al quran e onek onek amon ayah ache jegulo pore western scientist ra basis hishebe dhore hypothesis toiri korechen and then they found out them to be true afterwards ..she gulor bishod bornona akhon amar dite iche korche na..je keu search kore nite poare from net...amar point holo amon ekti grontho oi dine unar moto akjon nirokhor manush jini science and mathz er basic dharona gulo o panni from kono teacher or books..tar pokhe rochona kora shomvob na..so the holy al quran is not a man written book ..it came from somewhere else...thats all..

A lot of what has been revealed have proper explanations attached to them. Similarly a great wealth of prophecies and facts were presented which can be equally rebutted. Obviously I can not rebut a fact that you did not mention. May be you would like to give me some specific examples, if you can find them. Some constructive posts, for a change, would be appreciated. Obviously this thread is going nowhere and if you have some genuine points, you are welcome to open a new thread at the appropriate forum. I will be more than happy to discuss with you out of respect I have for you


again ...when i lost her ... i asked to myself..allah ki prarthona shunte pan? unar ekta nam ache as samiyu jar ortho shorbo srbonkari..uni ki shunte panna how the mother groaned....silently..he has another name...jar ortho shorbo droshta ..can't he see the mother bleed when she loses her most cherished possession???? ...i beg mercy allah ..maybe i dun understand ur thaughts..

(am sorry if i said anything silly)

[For]

An off topic starting with regrets but it is an important fact regarding my position and this subject.

All my posts that I post now or later are all my personal statements based on what I have known from scholars, Islamic teachings, Quran and hadith and it is possible that these statements might reflect other statements as they are very common examples and in any such case it is nothing more then sheer coincidence, however I might choose to gather some information from websites that I will provide links or details.

I will start of with the holy Quran:

• The Sun and Moon are both in motion, each having its own specific motion. *The sun and the moon are in motion and only someone with greater power then human is controlling it.

• It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit. SURAH 36, AYAT 36-44*
This surly is controlled by a superior power then human as we have no control over the sun or the moon.

• All forms of fruits exist in pairs. SURAH 55, AYAT 52-53*
Someone with greater power then human has created them and in pair!

• Every thing we have created are in pairs. Sura 51:49 *
It is evident that everything is created in pairs and this quote is from the holy Quran, which was revealed 1400 years ago. As Deepa already explained I will not repeat and confuse people.

If we closely look at the above quotes and think, then we shall have no doubts that there is a superior, a creator that has created and controlling all that which is beyond human power.

I have many more quotes from the holy Quran but reserve them as I believe this enough for anyone who wants to believe and those who don’t! Nothing will be good enough for them.

My questions

I understand the existence of this earth came from a big bang! Were the first humans also born from that?

1. Who created the first humans?

2. Who created the sun, the moon, water and all other natural things?

3. Who is the air controlled by? Which humans can’t nor have any power over it!

I have many more but I guess this should be enough for the moment

About this subject

I am not participant to this subject as only a topic but I am participating because most people disagree to participate as this thread is originally asking believers to debate against the existence of the almighty and if none debate as for, then against party might have an easy victory that might just give the confused, younger the wrong impression and turn them away from religion

As I have noticed some other posts have been removed I will not be shocked if same happened with mine but I will ask anyone deleting to give an explanation as my post is based on present debate and I have every right to an explanation that might be the reason of my departure.

* web quotes

Wateva rex bro .... it is all about to prove the existance of GOD ....... so wat do u think ? we cant collect infos' / proves from anywhere else ?

if u wanna c our personal views den is ok ..... make a rule dat we cant take others stuffz for dis debate ........ ok ?